Q&A with Open Government Geeks

By Aurea Astro
Communications Fellow

A couple weeks after helping to host the first OpenGovWest conference in Seattle, Re-Vision Labs members Brett Horvath, Nick Spang, and Daniela Vasquez discuss the Gov 2.0’s present challenges, opportunities, direction, and why they would be smiling from their municipal office in 2060 if all goes as hoped.

Q: WHAT CHALLENGES DO YOU SEE IN THE GOVERNMENT 2.0 MOVEMENT IN 2010?

Full Responses to Opportunities and Challenges MP3

Brett Horvath at OpenGovWest conference. Photo by Lawrence Leung: curiousangle.com.

BRETT:  The biggest challenge right now is that the open government movement is not a social movement; it’s a movement of technocrats and innovators, and therefore the conversations are really limited in scope.

NICK: I think the challenges are mainly twofold:  One is from the citizen’s side.  It’s hard to get citizens engaged and to invest the time that it takes to learn about issues and then share their thoughts.  People are too distracted.  There’s a lot of ways to occupy your time, and spending it getting involved in policy is a huge investment that I don’t think a lot of people are willing to make right now.

The other challenge is administrative.  The changes that are coming about with the IT revolution are requiring a complete re-thinking about how you share information with constituents and retrieve it from them, and those changes are meeting a lot of resistance from people who don’t want to spend the time taking the risks to try out new systems and learn new things.

DANIELA: One, leadership, and two, engaging the citizens.  You can have a very committed leader and it’s going well, but elections change the leader and you have to start again.  It is very difficult to trigger the movement of the citizens.  How do we create a way that is really meaningful for them?  The government tries to use push technology – it needs to engage people and really listen to what they’re saying.

BRETT: The problem is most governments are run like loose confederations of org charts.  Each one of those departments fights for their budgets.  The informational revolution has not treated institutions well.  So many of those departments get their validity– their reason for being– by controlling information.  And there’s an INVERSE relationship between freedom of information, and command and control hierarchies.  The more free that information is, the less control that institution has.  And the first thing the institution does is fight for its own survival.

You get this really weird dynamic where people working in government who have really innovating instincts… well, the system is actually working against them.  And that’s a major problem.

DANIELA: Because you need people with vision and courage.

Q: WHAT OPPORTUNITIES DO YOU SEE IN THE GOVERNMENT 2.0 MOVEMENT IN 2010?

Daniela Vasquez on Open Gov Policy panel. Photo by Lawrence Leung: curiousangle.com.

BRETT: The Gov 2.0 movement is about to get very Darwinian. Unlike the federal government who can print new money, state and city governments are

revenue-based businesses.  People in department of commerce and economic development are hungry, and they will do anything to cultivate economic growth and the Gov 2.0 movement will be the core driver of it.   The last 30 years it has been a regulatory race to the bottom. Where you see states in the south making it easier to pollute so businesses will come, the opposite will happen.  It’s going to be “what are the government structures and regulatory frameworks really cultivate econ growth in the 21st century?”

NICK: This is indicative of a sea change that’s occurring within our govt slowly around IT.  In the old system, we elected “wise” people to make decisions for us.  The government’s responsibility was to collect all of the pertinent information and then to be the wizened decision maker and come up with the right solution that represents everyone.  If they didn’t come up with the right solution they wouldn’t get re-elected.  And that’s the concept of government as “Solution Provider.”  And that’s why under the traditional system the government has a monopoly on all the information, and operates under the idea that the more you let citizens get involved the more it just slows down the process of the wise public servant coming to their conclusion.  I think we still operate very much under that paradigm.

But in the new paradigm, these people become BROKERS of the information coming from the citizens.  The citizens are given equal access to information and are able to understand that information for themselves and respond to it with their thoughts, opinions and values, and deliver those to the decision-maker who has to weigh and balance and create a transparent solution that meets the needs of the people, as opposed to the traditional way where input from the people is just a distraction to the wizened public servant making their decision.

Q: CAN YOU CLARIFY THE CONNECTION BETWEEN OPEN GOVERNMENT, CITIZEN PARTICIPATION, AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT?

NICK: Part of the connection is in this concept of an Innovation Ecosystem where you can create a whole body – a whole platform – where decision-makers, citizens, and businesses go through processes much more quickly than traditionally.  A lot of time the bottleneck is around information.  The business needs to get the information to the agency, the agency to the public, the public to the agency, and etc. If you make all of that information flow instantly to all parties, and you don’t need these stepwise processes, I think you can quadruple the speed by which you can make equally informed decision.

BRETT: To piggyback on that, data is a stagnant concept in people’s minds.  But data is not linear.  You think of data, you think of 1s and 0s, charts, spreadsheets.  Data is more expansive and non-linear in the way that once it gets out there and it’s put in the right format, it spreads through different mediums, it gets re-purposed, re-packaged.  And government may put out one open source piece of prime data that might completely change the dynamics at the other end– in whether a business wants to locate there, how a neighborhood thinks about itself and engages in problem solving, and so forth.  Getting data out there effects citizen engagement and economic development. Governments have thought that the data is theirs – they own it, they control it – and it’s not.  It’s the people’s data.  And it’s the government’s moral obligation to make that data useful and available in real time.  And if it doesn’t, then it’s going to hold itself back, it’s going to make it harder to activate citizens, for business to interact with the government.

DANIELA: Open information and collaboration help to ensure governments don’t duplicate so many things, which is inefficient and ultimately hinders progress, economic or otherwise.

NICK: Right.  For example, millions of dollars get spent every year on administrative disputes and lawsuits between agencies and agencies and citizens.  In the Forest Service where I worked, the budget was about $1 million a year, but 95% of that was spent on attorney fees because every project proposed ended up getting appealed by citizen groups.  And if the citizen groups ended up winning, under law the Forest Service had to pay all the attorney fees for that battle.

So this command and control structure where controlling information flow might have worked in the past for some projects is clearly failing now and costing taxpayers money and slowing things down drastically.

Q: SO WHERE IS THE GOV 2.0 GOING?

BRETT: The Tea Party Movement is just the beginning.  These people that are not necessarily against abortion or gun rights, they’re just mad at the government.  It is not working for them.  And I think you’re right– when you have trans-national corporations that are as powerful as they are, they’re literally pitting governments against one another and seeing who can get the best deal, and exploiting all over the map.  Usual boundaries aren’t going to be able to confront that and protect citizens.

The other thing I think is that the division between citizens and government is going to start evaporating.  Grover Norquist, one of the titans of the conservative movement over the past 30 years, famously said that, “I want a government so small that I can drown it in the bathtub.”  I want a government so porous that I can’t tell where it ends and the rest of society begins.  And that is where we’re going to be pushing towards.  Obviously there’s always going to be experts, institutions, and things I want to get done that I don’t want to think about.  But you’re going to be living, and swimming, and breathing government all the time.  You already do right now but people just don’t realize it.  That is going to get further extended in some ways that are… well, kind of mind blowing.

NICK: We’re moving away from a system where public servants are expected to be the wise decision-makers who unilaterally make the most long-term balanced decision for everyone, and toward crowd sourcing to citizens.  The whole nation will eventually be deciding what to do with nuclear waste from Hanford.  It’s almost direct-citizen voting.

DANIELA: People will be more involved because the tools will make it more easy to do so.

Nick Spang and Bolot Bazarbaev.

Q: IT’S YEAR 2060 AND YOU’RE SITTING INSIDE YOUR MUNICIPAL OFFICE AND SMILING.  WHY ARE YOU SMILING?

Full Responses to Smiling in 2060 MP3

DANIELA: To know that you have more equity.  Basic needs are met so people can do whatever they are best at doing — to release everyone’s potential, unfettered.

NICK: Because there’s a thriving community of people below.  Sustainable.  People feel they’re part of a cohesive community.  There’s growth.  All of the basic needs are taken care of.  Nobody is hungry, shelter, warmth, clean air and water, feel they can express themselves and have above all the opportunity to express their strengths and abilities.

BRETT: I’m in a bathtub (laugh).  I would be smiling because I would know that if I had to solve a problem in my geography, I could work with anyone on earth, in government and society to solve that problem.    We could share resources and infrastructure, adapt and be flexible,  instead of year 2010 when I had to work with people in the municipal tower with the budget I had and the info I had on spreadsheets.  And CD ROMS.

Excercise Your Green Agent-cy

By Martina Welke & Aurea Astro
RVL Fellows

Intrigued by what we learned about Agent Green during a recent interview with the owners of the Pike Brewing Company, Aurea Astro and I decided to further explore this mysterious environmental force moving through Seattle businesses.  First we made our way back to Pike Pub—the site of Agent Green’s inaugural appearance—and then our investigations led us to Terra Bella Flowers in Seattle’s Greenwood neighborhood, one of Agent Green’s most recent missions.

Re-Vision Labs founding partners Gabriel Scheer and Dan O’Shea designed the Agent Green program as part of Seattle Greendrinks in an effort to capitalize on the power of crowds and community partnerships.  Agent Green utilizes these elements in order to help make it easy and ultimately financially beneficial for businesses to become more environmentally efficient.  Proponents of Agent Green use social media, traditional media, and good old word-of-mouth to announce an upcoming event, and on the day of the event a crowd descends to support the participating business and help fund energy retrofits.

Back to the Pub We Go!

Gabriel approached Drew Gillespie, manager of the Pike Pub, early in 2009 and proposed that the restaurant host the first Agent Green event in Seattle.  They decided to schedule the event during Earth month, and Pike Pub committed 25% of sales made to the Agent Green crowd to energy retrofits.

When the scheduled day arrived, the crowd flooded in and raised $3,700.  After much research and analysis, Drew decided that lighting was the best place to invest in energy retrofits.  With the help of energy incentives offered Seattle City Light (which amounted to $14,000!) and the money earned from the Agent Green event, Pike Pub only had to pay about $1,000 out of pocket—an investment that Drew estimates will pay for itself with energy savings in less than a year and a half.

“We’ve always been a fairly green company, but [Agent Green] was the beginning of us really striving to be leaders,” Drew told us.

The lighting improvements have resulted in 31 tonnes of carbon gas reductions and 51,000 KW hours savings!  Drew is now working with Puget Sound Energy to improve the restaurant’s heating and cooling systems, and he continues to look for more opportunities for promoting environmental excellence.

“It’s amazing the small things you can do to make a big difference—it doesn’t take much to compost or change your light bulbs…a lot of it can save you money in the long run.”

Drew appreciates that events like Agent Green allow the Pike Brewing Co. to support social awareness and engagement: “That’s where I’m really seeing an impact on a business side is people in Seattle who are in these communities, who are environmentally responsible, now respect us and come here.”

This year for Earth Day, Pike Pub will be hosting an Earth Dinner “to support Chefs Collaborative and to raise awareness of the importance of a sustainable food supply.”  And where will Agent Green be heading this month?  Read on, gentle reader, read on…

And North, to Greenwood!

Aurea and I continued to track the Agent around Seattle, and ended up in a somewhat magical Greenwood neighborhood flower shop.  We spoke with the Terra Bella Flowers owner, Melissa Feveyear, amidst a visceral feast of vibrant blossoms, rich scents, and fanciful ornaments.  Oh, and how could I neglect to mention the gigantic canine Oscar—closer in stature to a horse than a dog—who rested his delightfully large head in my lap for the duration of our conversation.

Terra Bella Flowers was one of six businesses to join Agent Green and the Sustainability Committee of the Greenwood-Phinney Chamber of Commerce in February for the fourth and most extensive mission to date.  Melissa’s shop already operates “under the umbrella of organic, local, and sustainable” products, so the Agent Green partnership was an obvious match.

The crowd convened yet again, this time to enjoy food, shopping, and art all around the neighborhood.

“We had more traffic come through here than I’d ever seen before…I had roughly twenty to thirty people in here at all time,” Melissa recounted.  “It really helped us with publicity and I think in the long term it will help us financially for that reason.”

Melissa hopes to eventually insulate the cold concrete floors and improve the Terra Bella heating system with the revenue and resources generated by Agent Green.

Where Next?

If you’ve decided by now that you want to do a little sleuthing of your own and you happen to be in Seattle,  don’t make plans next Tuesday evening: April’s Agent Green event will be at Sport Restaurant & Bar on 4th Avenue.  Hope to see you there!

Ten Ways Not to be a Tool on Twitter

By Aurea Astro
Re-Vision Labs Fellow

Aurea Self-Reflects on Twool-ness

You May be a “Twool” if You:

  1. Never apply relevance, personal perspective, or context for your tweets.
  2. Twitter to the point of just being noisy.
  3. Only tweet mainstream news headlines—the ones half a million have already seen.
  4. Tweet old news.
  5. Use Twitter for instant messaging – 1:1 conversations are only interesting to you and your Twitter counterpart.
  6. Reply with one-word answers.
  7. Have no identifiable niche or brand associated with @johndoey
  8. Aren’t gracious, never thanking or acknowledging Tweeters who have Mentioned, RT’d, or engaged with you to any degree.
  9. Tweet with the CAPS LOCK ON.
  10. Never to rarely engage in or inspire a public conversation.

One Word Breaks the Code of Silence

By Aurea Astro
Re-Vision Labs Fellow

The Open Government West conference last week demonstrated the diversity of voices and perspectives involved in the Gov 2.0 movement, and the foreboding challenges ahead as we work across the public, private, non-profit, and civilian sectors.  How will a mass conglomeration of web and app developers, bureaucrats, non-profiteers, community activists, pensive loiterers, corporations, city council members, and CTO’s ever mobilize into one effective vehicle for opening government?

How will we ever satisfy everyone without falling into the proverbial black hole of satisfying no one?  So many interests, so many different lenses, thinking caps, needs and visions… shudder.  And snore.

But as I combed through the hours of video from the Open Government West conference last week, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that despite the heterogeneity of attendees, the extensive reiteration of only a couple words imbued optimism that maybe, just maybe, a mass conglomeration of hybrid ambitions could actually effect the change in the world we all want to see.

I love pop culture and Kelly Osborne’s “One Word,” (specifically the Chris Cox dance remix), seemed especially fitting for a 2 min video that to me, helped summarize the conference in that tasty and palatable way only a lowly pop culturist could enjoy.  But maybe you will as well.

Can you guess which word was heard over and over at the conference?

Sustainable Pleasures—Part Three

By Martina Welke & Aurea Astro
Re-Vision Labs Fellows

Part Three:  The Rest of the Story

(Check out Part One and Two if you missed them)

The Finkels are not only successful business people, talented artists, and environmental stewards, but also masterful storytellers.  Aurea and I delighted in hearing about their adventures around the world and learning how their stories have influenced the Pike Brewing Company.

According to the thorough, rich history provided on the company website, Charles and Rose Ann met at a wine tasting in 1968: “Over shared Shiners they discover[ed] they both love beer and each other.”  During our interview, the 40 plus years the Finkels have spent together became increasingly apparent in our dialogue: Charles or Rose Ann often seamlessly completed the other’s sentences or added details to a story without ever interrupting the flow of their narrative.

Customers have taken notice of the stories and personalities behind the brewery and pub.  The Finkels get a lot of compliments on their website and the fact that they are a family-owned business.

“In an environment where increasingly people are relying on the Walmarts and chain businesses to satisfy their need to eat and to shop, I think people find it refreshing to go to a genuine place, that’s authentic, that real people own it, real people care about it.  Real people know their employees and care about their employees.  People who care about the quality of the food that they serve,” Charles told us.

The care Charles referred to is evident in the attention to detail the Finkels pay in every step of their business process.  Food purchasing, menu design, brewing recipes, bottle labels, and community outreach are all meticulously handled by the Finkels, and it’s this personal touch that gives their restaurant and their beer unique appeal.

“In our previous life as a beer importer, we introduced the first organic beer ever in America.   I designed the label, and I put organic on there, but I understated it.  I wanted people to buy the beer because it was really a delicious beer, not because it was organic.  And the same thing with our restaurant.  We want people to come here because the food is delicious, because the place is fun to be in, because the beer is so good, not because it’s necessarily organic.  It is, but that’s an added bonus.  The real most important thing is the food.”

Watch for Charles and Rose Ann at the pub enjoying a pint of Pike XXXXX Stout or Kilt Lifter Ruby Ale, walking their mascot—a one-eyed Boston Terrier named Dirby, or riding around town on their bicycle-built-for-two, complete with “tandem talker” headsets and matching jerseys.

Sustainable Pleasures—Part Two

By Martina Welke & Aurea Astro
Re-Vision Labs Fellows

Part Two: Building a Movement, System and Community

(In case you missed it, find Part One here)



During the same year that the Finkels originally found the Pike Brewing Co., another movement was brewing across the Atlantic.  In 1989, delegates from fifteen countries signed a manifesto that officially began Slow Food, an organization dedicated “to counteract[ing] fast food and fast life, the disappearance of local food traditions and people’s dwindling interest in the food they eat, where it comes from, how it tastes and how our food choices affect the rest of the world.”

The Finkels became involved in the Slow Food movement in the late nineties and started regularly traveling to Italy for Slow Food functions, such as the Salone del Gusto, the largest craft food fair in the world.  After selling the Pike Brewing Co., the Finkels had more time to devote to Slow Food and other charitable causes, which strengthened their already staunch commitment to high quality food and green practices. (Stay tuned for Part Three for more details on the Finkels’ Slow Food adventures…)

As the Finkels have implemented their sustainable philosophy after repurchasing the Pike Brewing Co., they’ve found tremendous value in two things we happen to value quite highly here at Re-Vision Labs: community and collaboration.  In addition to the resources they discovered through Slow Food, the Finkels have joined national and local networks that support their vision for sustainability.

“We’re very active in an organization called Chef’s Collaborative, which is a national organization that connects restaurants to farms,” Charles said.

Five Pike Brewing Co. staff members recently participated in a Chef’s Collaborative event called Farmer Fisher Chef Connection, a full day of panel discussions and networking opportunities for the Northwest food community (where Re-Vision Lab founding partner Dan O’Shea was a featured speaker).

The Finkels have noticed it’s become easier to find sustainable food sources that can deliver in a timely manner as more restaurants have taken an interest in becoming green.  Bringing more players to the table not only encourages suppliers to rise to meet demand, but also allows for more collaboration.  A Pike Pub beef supplier, Heritage Meats, facilitated one such collaborative opportunity with Canlis, an upscale Seattle restaurant.   Since Canlis purchasers are primarily interested in prime beef cuts, and Pike Pub needs a high volume of hamburger, Heritage Meats struck a mutually beneficial balance that efficiently meets both restaurants’ needs.

Charles: “The system has to be in place to facilitate an expedient business plan.  And that is what is happening now, both in terms of food and beer.”

Rose Ann: “Exactly.  And that’s why more and more restaurants can follow a sustainable philosophy.”

The Finkels have found many ways to support the local communities they are a part of, beginning with their food-purchasing priorities.

“While we like organic, we’re not going to buy something organic that gets shipped 1400 miles.  Our goal is to deal with local purveyors,” Rose Ann said.

Sunday Evening Whiskey Club musicians relax between sets at Washington for Haiti event.

Pike Pub also frequently hosts events that bring lovers of food and beer together.  Days before Valentine’s Day—as “foreplay before the big day”—the Pub hosted the second annual Chocofest.  According to the press release, over twenty vendors gather together to share “the best beers, wines, spirits, and mead with an assortment of chocolate that would make Willie Wonka jealous.”  I’m definitely going next year.

A few weeks before Chocofest, Pike Pub generously hosted Washington for Haiti in partnership with Re-Vision Labs, a fundraiser that resulted in over $3,400 for Fonkoze, a microfinance organization in Haiti.  To celebrate Father’s Day in June, the Pub is hosting a Pints for Prostates event as part of a national campaign to raise awareness of prostate cancer.

Whether uniting people for the sake of environmental sustainability, global development, public health, or unadulterated appreciation of delicious viands, the Finkels are impressively demonstrating the power of communities within their restaurant, brewery, and worldwide network of epicureans.

Sustainable Pleasures—Part One

By Martina Welke & Aurea Astro
Re-Vision Labs Fellows

On a recent Friday afternoon, I was fortunate enough to have a meeting that included all my favorite elements: a group of passionate people sharing good stories and ideas, lots of opportunities to learn, plenty of laughter, and some high-caliber beer.   Of course, meetings at Re-Vision Labs generally have the first three of the aforementioned qualities, but the beer was a great added bonus as my colleague Aurea Astro and I sat down with Charles and Rose Ann Finkel, owners of the Pike Brewing Company, to talk about sustainability, community, tandem bicycling, and life’s finer pleasures.

After a quick jaunt up Harbor Steps, Aurea and I arrived at our neighborhood brewery, armed with a small camera, a notebook, and a healthy dose of curiosity. Our conversation with Charles and Rose Ann yielded so much great information and video footage that we decided to turn it into a three-part blog series.  Happy reading!

Part One: The Win-Win Transformation

The Finkels originally opened the Pike Brewing Co. in 1989, then sold it the late 90’s, and re-purchased the brewery and pub in 2006 (once a brewer, always a brewer).  Upon regaining ownership, they initiated changes to make the business more environmentally sustainable.

Charles was quick to point out the inherent sustainability of beer-making, because all of the byproducts are recyclable.  Residual spent grains are transferred to a local farm to feed livestock after completion of the brewing process. Additionally, the tanks are heated with steam from nearby Seattle Steam, which recently began using a biomass boiler and reduced its carbon footprint by 45,000 tons.  Other aspects of the business, however, have taken a bit more work and time to become more earth-friendly.

Over several months, the Finkels trained their staff about sustainable practices, such as minimizing landfill waste.  Every trash station in the restaurant consists of two large bins for recycling and compost accompanied by a much smaller garbage bin.  During the transition, a few employees “abandoned ship,” but many embraced the Finkels’ green philosophy and still work for Pike Brewing Co. today.

The Finkels have researched area farms and built connections with nearby ranchers in order to find local suppliers for all meat products served in the restaurant.  By the end of March, 100% of the protein on the Pike menu will be sustainably sourced.  Since Rose Ann estimates the Pub serves three to four thousand hamburgers each month, that makes for a lot of sustainable meat.

“It’s hard to source, for example, grass-fed beef.  It’s not that everyone is knocking on your door and saying ‘we’ve got grass-fed beef.’ In fact it’s quite the opposite, and the ones that are knocking on your door are mass market,” Charles explained.

Shrimp have also proven to be a very difficult menu item to source.   Most shrimp are produced on farms in Southeast Asia, oftentimes at the expense of mangrove swamps, so the Finkels went searching closer, less ecologically destructive options.  They eventually found two sources: pink shrimp from Oregon and wild prawns from Louisiana.

Rose Ann told us that all of these changes have resulted in tastier food and less environmental strain, as well as a higher price tag: “Your food costs are higher, definitely.  But we feel strongly enough about it that we’re willing to try to be more efficient in the way we work to offset the added cost of the product.”

In April of 2009, the Pike Brewing Co.  partnered with Agent Green, a program of Seattle Greendrinks that utilizes smart partnerships and the power of a crowd to “reduce the capital costs that can prevent businesses from undertaking efforts to become more sustainable and energy efficient.” With the help of $14,000 in City Light incentives and $3,700 from the Agent Green mob, the Pike Brewing Co. was able to invest in efficiency retrofits that will reduce their energy use by 51 Kilowatts a year and save about $200 each month.

“It’s all win-win.  It has to be win-win to be sustainable,” Rose Ann asserted.  “In the long run, it’s not harder.  It’s the transition that’s harder.”

If the delectable Pike Double IPA and Tandem Double Ale that Aurea and I sampled are any indication of how delightful sustainability can taste, I’d say the Finkels have found a winning combination indeed.

Part Two Coming Wednesday: Building a Movement, System, and Community